So much debate (as there should be) on health care reform and it's gotten me to thinking about why there are so many people that feel that health care should be inexpensive if not free. Yes we have health care but we pay a pretty penny for that care/policy. We have an HMO and although it doesn't cover necessarily all doctors or all procedures it's been good for us (my husband with cancer and me with copd-emphysema). We have a copay for what seems like more and more procedures but that's okay, it's still less expensive than the alternative.
If everyone were to pay for their health care it would probably be less expensive. When someone goes into an emergency room for care and they don't have insurance, someone has to pay for this specialized care (and the ER is a medical specialty) and who pays for it are all the people that are already paying for health care insurance (as the costs are passed through the insurance companies for care and they pass the cost on to it's members).
I don't believe that if you want to pay for your insurance that they should be able to turn you down for pre-existing conditions.
My son is a doctor and he's gone to school/trained/worked for 9 years since he finished college and is finally ready to take his oral boards to to board certified. He and his wife have taken on a huge amount of debt for medical school and living expenses during residency and his fellowship when he wasn't making diddly (his wife was working). Doctors really do have to pay for their training and testing (yes they pay to be tested). Doctors also have to pay for their health care (no they don't treat themselves or their family members).
Contrary to popular belief, "most" doctors do not make a huge salary.
Wednesday, August 12, 2009
What I think about paying for healthcare
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31 COMMENTS:
Becoming a doctor is indeed expensive. They have years of debt to pay back.
I don't want socialized medicine. Not one bit.
Have a terrific day. :)
I agree with you. I am happy to pay for health care and health insurance. I believe my co-pays are quite reasonable. My mother has Medicare which is actually quite wonderful and covers virtually everything. She could probably pay more than she does, but many older people can't. For myself, I'd like the health system to remain the same. For my daughter, however, who has Type I diabetes, and at age 25 cannot get private health insurance without paying premiums far beyond her meager salary--I'd like to see some sort of government assistance.
I have been on both sides of this - good insurance for many years, and then none at all. To have insurance, it would cost $1200 a month for just my husband and me, and then co-pays on top of that for doctors and medications. There is no way I can afford that. We pay as we go, and from years of having insurance, I know that since we pay cash we are charged much more than those with insurance. The doctors and hospitals agree to accept less from insurance companies. Those paying cash pay so much more. Hopefully a fair system can be worked out somehow. I certainly don't mind paying, but the quotes I get are ridiculous!
I've been on both sides as well. I've had insurance through work. However, I lost that insurance when I lost my job, and given the economy I'm finding it hard as hell to get one, temp, full time, or otherwise. Consequently, right now I don't have insurance b/c quite frankly I don't have $200 a month to pay for it. When you're in a certain age category and have a uterus, that's what it costs. Until my mom died, I was pretty darn close to losing my house. Putting up $200 for health insurance each month but having nowhere to live was out of the question. As it is, I avoid going to the doctor because I'm scared that, should I go and someone finds something (like my kidney stones will need to be lasered out), it will be considered preexisting and I won't be covered. If it was cheaper, I'd buy it, but it's not.
At the same time, I don't like the notion that I'll be hit by the IRS if I don't buy insurance. From what I understand, any help the government plans on giving people who can't afford insurance doesn't begin to 2013, but when does the requirement that you buy it begin? If it's before that, you're getting fined for being poor.
Anyway, just my opinion and experience.
I agree that doctors spend a fortune becoming doctors and then they make very little for many years of residency. When I look at the full charge from my doctor (not my copay) it not that much more than what I pay to take my dog to the vet (and the vet doesn't have to worry about malpractice). Nothing that is high quality is cheap.
I agree! I posted a rant about socialized health care a week or so ago and I've seen how much worse our already flawed system will get.
Deb what a great accomplishment for your son! What a statement about you and your husband as parents. Wow a DR. congratulations!!
I do think it is wonderful to have private insurance. We are blessed that we do. But, I don't know if we will be able to maintain it after Walter retires.
As he is 11 years older than me I don't know where we will turn. My premium will rise to almost $400 a month. On top of that my medicines and Dr. visits even with Blue Cross Blue Shield of Minnesota(one of the best in the country...I qualify because his company is out of MN.)We will be spending out of pocket almost $5 to 600 a month just on my health care, in my present condition.
My son-in-law is a DR. So I do know how very expensive it is. He graduated from Stanford.
He is very fortunate to be in some high up managerial places now in his career and makes a very nice salary.
I hope your son goes forward and becomes very successful and gets his debts paid off very soon.
My daughter owes almost $80,000 just to have become a Professor. And she will never ever see a salary anywhere near a DR.'s.
It is a very complex and taught time right now in America.
As for me, I am going to keep the faith that this country will come back, rise to the occasion, and together somehow we will all find a resolution.
Big big hugs,
Jackie:-)
I am surely not abusing our health care system (one yearly check up, justified at the age of 66) but I am paying bloody heel for medical insurance. 700 dollars per month for me and my wife.
Hi,
I appreciate your point of view, and I always had the impression that American doctors were filthy rich so thanks for correcting that impression. But do think its wrong for private insurance companies to make huge profits off the health concerns of the population. I especially find it unethical that CEOs get million dollar bonuses -- which they do -- while holding us hostage for health care.
I think the drug companies are getting way to rich as well, and some research projects are utterly bogus.
I lived in England for 9 years where they have National Health. Yes you pay a bit higher taxes in UK. (You have to pay TV tax too -- but its your choice whether to have TV.)
When I needed to see a doctor, which wasn't often, I was able to see a doctor. dentistry was so affordable I was actually able to take card of my teeth -- I can't afford to do that here!
NHS is a Godsend! The main problem they have is that there is too much demand as the population ages, and the system can't keep up. There are also private doctors who charge a fortune, but the choice is there if you can afford it.
We pay so much tax in the US and get nothing for it. At least the taxes you pay in UK gets you something important. Health care!
President Obama only wants there to be an alternative to private insurance companies and their price gouging. I really don't care of Insurance companies go out of business. Why should I? I would rather know that there is a health care plan I can afford that has no private interests involved.
Anyway, that's my 2p.
Thanks!
I really do appreciate hearing what others have to say because on this topic I'm always learning a new fact or looking at the issues with a different twist. I think if citizens talk about this we will reach the best decision for the masses. I watch the mobs that are forming about health care and I can't help but think they are all screaming and beating the war drums but no one is listening to what's being said
Keep the opinions coming, we will all learn from what you have to say.
yea....medical bill are like huge.......and to without an insurance can kill.......
We have a lot of people dying cause this swine flu these days in India.....hope....19 died in last....one week..... god knows wat the poor will do when the cost of the medicine is like.....Rs.4000 or $100-$120
In England our health care is free to everyone. The money for this comes from what is known as National Insurance. This is a small sum of money that is collected before a person receives their salary. Because there is no opt out and all employers and employees pay the amount paid is quite small and covers everyone - including those who have retired, children who are too young to earn, people who are unable to work, people who have lost their jobs, people who come into our country to go to universities, and so on and so forth.
Ireland - has a system whereby funds are obtained via a National Lottery. This also covers everyone.
I suppose it's a case of where there's a will there's a way.
I personally cannot understand how those in the US, I believe over forty million people who do not have any health care do not become more vocal. It really must be terrible for them and a tragedy that no-one appears to be bothered with their plight.
Doctors in our country are on good salaries. Doctors in Ireland are on good salaries. Doctors in Sweden are on good salaries. It shows that they can be on good salaries without being in private health care positions.
I do hope that you get the reform that you really need. It will provide many more jobs in health care and it surely must be the right thing to do.
I think People are afraid of government run Health care. I know a lot of it has to due with soviet thinking, Socialized Medicine, and a fear of being controlled. I believe we need a system that will allow freedom to decided for ones self. Perhaps a tiered medical plan would work. However I do not think our government should provide health care to all just because it wants to. Some kind of competition needs to be in place to make the health companies competitive. Tort reform must be in place to keep people from suing the doctors. Doctor who have a bad track record on care should have their license pulled, that way the cost for malpractice insurance will go down and there should be a cap on awards. any way you look at it we live in a free country and have been able to make our own decision on every thing. I would still like that to be the way of America. We still have a long way to go in order to trust government to make decisions for individuals.
I am just grateful that I have been born into the NHS here in Britain which over the years I have seen work very very well indeed not only for myself but for my family and friends with no fear of bills and insurance payments.
I am sorry that so many Americans believe all the lies that are being spouted around at the moment about our NHS.
Some People in Britain used to think quite similarly to those of the far right in the US - whereby only those who can afford health should have health. Thankfully they were outnumbered. Where years ago only a portion of the population felt safe with the knowledge that they and their families would be looked after if becoming ill. We have the knowledge that we can see our doctors day or night, be referred on to top consultants, spend time in hospital, if the need arises be given time to convelesce. There are specialist centres everywhere for all kinds of medical conditions and needs and they all are covered by the NHS.
We too have right-wing people in our country who somehow believe that it's all right to think that some people shouldn't have any health care at all. All I can think is that they have never ever really been ill - because if a person has had any experience of illness in either their own lives or those of their families - they could never want to deprive anyone of medical help where it was necessary.
Whether a country is right-wing or left-wing or somewhere in between it can never really be considered free or truly democratic if it deprives one of its people of basic health care.
And for those who may not be still convinced remember the quote "There, but for the grace of God, go I." None of us know what our future holds or what may befall us ... this sadly applies to everyone - none of us are 'bullet proof.'
Deb,
Thank you so much for hosting my ad here today.
I also want to commend you for having the courage to post this debate here on your blog.
I have researched quite a bit about the British system and the average DR. over there earns approximately one million dollars a year, all paid by the government.
To me this seems like a reasonable salary for anyone.
This is just a very difficult time right now in America for everybody. Walter just got a notice this past week that his salary, along with every driver at the company is going to be cut by .01 to .02 cents a mile.
That ads up to quite a loss of income for us when you consider he averages 2500 miles a week. he was averaging a full week of 3000 miles but that stopped last year!
We haven't heard yet but we are hoping that no more changes occur in our insurance. They did raise our co-pay and also cut out several types of medication they will pay for.
Once again, I just hope and pray that we can all come together as a country and find a solution that works for everyone.
I think if all sides would just settle down, really do some independent research, look at other systems and quit fighting with each other then we could find a way for all.
I recommend you watch the documentary Sicko. I learned a lot while watching this video and I was so shocked.
Enough of that!!
I have a new blog make over and I hope you hop over and see it!!
Hugs for you and Rudy! I hope you have a great weekend,
Jackie:-)
I just wrote a blog post today in response to an email I got from a relative that was full of lots of fear and lack of information about the health care system.
Personally, I think the insurance system needs to be made much more competitive and separated from employment. It is horrible that when people lose their jobs, they lose their insurance. It is horrible that so many people in our country cannot afford health insurance.
The large number of uninsured drives up the cost of health care for all of us, because hospitals and doctors take the hit when they provide services to someone that cannot pay. That gets passed on to all of us.
I am amused by people on Medicaid that are so vehement against any sort of government run health care program and don't want their health care changed. Excuse me, Medicaid is a government run health program.
I'm glad to hear people from other countries step in and talk about what things are like in their countries. By many standards, the United States is ranked in the teens for health care. We pay more and get less.
Some of this is because of the insurance companies. They are focused on returning dividends to their investors and making sure that their top officials are very well paid. Medicaid is much more efficient.
What really annoys me is that insurance companies are spending our premiums to lobby congress against health care reform. In short, they are trying to prevent us from having an additional choice, the choice of a public option. I say, give us a choice and stop spending our money to try and prevent us from getting a choice.
Insurance is killing doctors and the quality of care.
I am fortunate enough to have insurance from my job. The problem is if anything were to happen to my job I would be completely screwed. I'm 41 and a three year breast cancer survivor. Don't get me wrong I'm thrilled to be here but I have priced private health insurance and the least expensive coverage I could find that would cover anything cancer related is $1,400 dollar per month with a $5,000 deductible and a 50 percent co-pay.
I think that while doctors make a good living a lot of the expense for health care at this time is in pharmaceuticals and all of the expenses of insurance companies.
What is worse is that all these Americans that believe all the lies about the NHS and the Canadian health care system are working to deprive the more informed rest of us of the health care we rightly deserve and need.
Wake up Americans! Why fight your own best interests because Fox News tells you to?
And what the heck is "Soviet thinking"? ?????? The UK. Canada, Sweden. Spain are NOT and never were in the Soviet Union.
Why don't people THINK?
Arlene Marie - When my son was in college and took a year to study abroad in Spain their health care system also took care of him a few times when he needed it.
Kate - I'm glad to hear you are 3 years free of your cancer, I hope it continues and you grow to be an old woman. Wow, your health care cost is astounding!!
Kloggers - seriously, the doctors in your country make a million dollars a year? "Most" doctors in this country make less than $300,000 (which is still a good amount of money but not in comparison to what they've had to spend to make it).
So many people want to absent mindedly believe the media and what they report as true when in fact they exaggerate issues to sell their "news" and the truth is somewhere in between.
The more questions people ask, the deeper they dig and the more people they talk to can only lead us to a health care system that will be reasonably affordable for anyone that wants it.
The salaries of doctors, nurses and other health care workers are dependent upon what type of jobs they do. Obviously Consultants receive more than Junior Doctors. General Practitioners are on a different pay scale. Dentists are also on seperate pay scales.
What does not appear to be appreciated is currently there are 45 million Americans without healthcare and I believe a further 20 million under insuured - this is according to the various news items we are receiving over here. This is an awful lot of people ... If all of these people were catered for then there would be golden opportunities for many more workers in the US. More people taken off the dole to train to work in the health care system.
It is sad that so many people are not forward looking as they would see that although in the US it may be possible to get a hospital appointment within a week and in other parts of the world it might take between two and six weeks depending upon the ailment. The rest of us a guaranteed to have health care no matter what our circumstances - whether we are in work or out of work - whether we are rich or poor - even tramps off the street get the same treatment - and the treatment is wonderful because it is given to those who need it. Yes the NHS is still growing and learning but its staff are dedicated and everyone is treated the same as if they are a member of the Royal family.
We all benefit because when we work we all pay a contribution that is deducted at source and another small contribution is made by our employers. It is a very small amount of money but it covers everyone from birth until death. Everyone receives wonderful treatment by wonderful medical staff and without any of us having to worry about costs incurred.
I think here in Britain we simply cannot understand why a country such as America does not want to have health care for all its citizens. I must admit I was horrified when the news first broke that over 40 million people were treated like this. I was always taught to always think 'what if that were me' -
You currently have a president who is educated and can see that just as it is wrong to be racially prejudiced so it is wrong to be prejudiced against the poor the sick and the infirm.
What is surprising is that 40 million people haven't got together and protested or insisted that they are fairly treated ... perhaps they will - but I hope that they do not need to.
While I agree that the skyrocketing cost of insurance and health care are hurting both my feelings and my wallet, the concept of a government run system is even more alarming. As a BC survivor, I've talked to other women in other countries about their health care, and you'd better believe we do NOT want to go there. Excellent blog :o)
Ok, I saw the comment from Arlene Marie..What is Soviet thinking? so I thought I would clarify.
I did not mean to imply that other countries who have Government health care are soviet. Some of the Americans still hang on to the believe the Government run programs will turn us into a Communistic State..where the government decides who lives and dies.Based upon age and sickness or they just tell us if we need the treatment are not.I do not believe this! To me our government is trying to just fix the problem of some Americans not able to afford insurance from companies.We have too many children not covered by any company.Each country has it's own government and each government is run differently. In America change is hard for the people. We need to create our own Solution to this problem base on success of other countries health care system.What will work for America.
America doesn't appear to know how the rest of the world now views it. The amount of people that are in the US that have not health care plus those who are not fully covered - out number the whole of the population of Britain. This is a vast swathe of people and they are subjected to THIRD WORLD health care. A rich country prepared to offer Third World health care to its population!
On top of this. these very same people they have NO VOICE. The media only gives voice to the far right and the wealthy. I am an avid listener of world news and have found that on every US channel, so far, not once have I heard not even one voice of one of these 45 million people who are being left to fend for themselves.
In the US - Billions are spent on space exploration, billions are spent on defence and weapons development ... but nothing on the main asset of the US - namely the people.
Why even Cuba looks after every citizen - none are deprived of medical treatment and their hospitals are second to none. People are even travelling from the US to get free medical aid in Cuba and none have been turned away. They have been welcomed with open arms and GIVEN the very best of treatment at NO CHARGE. No citizen should feel that they have to go to another country and beg for treatment.
The world finds it strange that America perceives itself as the most wealthiest nation on the planet but it cannot find a few cents per head of population to give everyone the most important thing of any wealthy nation - namely health care for all.
In the US everyone is talking or thinking about health care - it's at the back of everyone's mind. If everyone received it no-one in America would ever have to think or worry about it ever again!
I agree with you that the US spends too much on weapons and war but we also spend too much on some aspects of social services. There are too many able bodied adults that could be working and aren't, too many parents that should be paying child support and aren't, too many people abusing the system - government is spending too much money on these things too. I can't count the number of times I've been behind people at the grocery store dressed in designer everything and paying for their groceries with food stamps and then get into a new model fancy vehicle - WTF!! I'll guarantee you that these people are also bellowing about the lack of health care. We can drive though a poorer area of the city and find the restaurant parking lots filled to the gills, why? I don't understand how so many people can be out of work yet I see "We're Hiring" signs in food establishments.
Don't be so hard on the U.S. about this health care issue - there is much more than meets the eye.
I wish people would stop using the term socialized medicine...National Health Care is what the target is. I find it humorous that many people up in arms right now are people who have medicare. People medicare is a government program, do they feel that's socialized medicine? Of course they don't. Do people collecting Social Security feel thats socialized? No, of course they don't, but it is a government program. We can not stay the same. We must grow, we must change. Our country is not the same, it changes and so we must change with it. To stay the same is to go backward when all things around you are changing and moving.
I too agree that the ER visits cost us all,but disagree that the issue isn't people want free care, they want care they can afford. The company I work for has 60 employees, I'm one of the few with insurance. I don't have it through my employer; but through my husband. Insurance isn't an option from my employer, thus many of my hard working co-workers are SOL. I disapprove of hard working Americans not having affordable health care.
Yes, becoming a doctor is long and hard and expensive. Your son is just beginning and I wish him lots of luck setting up his practice etc. But, would also disagree with you when you say most doctors aren't rich. Having worked in the medical field for 22 years, I never ran into one that wasn't. I worked in a large clinic, 2 different hospitals, managed 2 urgent care facilities, and worked in a variety of both small and large doctors offices, so do have lots of experiences to base my opinion on.
It's a complex issue, and a problem that affects us all, those with and those without. I believe we must try something new, doubt we'll get it right first time out of the box; but believe we must try and make adjustments along the way. The two primary groups desperately in need are the very young and the elderly; the two groups who require the most care and the two groups with the least ability to take care of themselves.
I'm very troubled by the terrible violence, the death threats at town meetings, where this important topic needs to be discussed.
I would disagree with the point Kml posted that people who pay cash pay more. They do not from my experience. People without insurance are given samples by most doctors so they don't have to have prescriptions filled, and hospitals reduce fees as do doctor offices for those without insurance.
The one constant in all this, is Insurance Companies are making money hand over fist. Insurance Companies have not suffered as other buisnesses have during these times; I believe they do need to be controlled. After think about it, you pay year after year after year and most people don't get the benefit from it; then you get older, have an illness and zap! Many people have become paupers, lost their house when insurance didn't take care of things. Yes, we need a different system.
Sandy
I am sure there are people who really do deserve help from the government. I Like you, Deb, feel we are lacking in our government's ability to control who gets these services. Many People have learned though-out their lives how to buck the system. I am sadden about that indeed. I really believe if a health system is provided and is affordable people will sign up. Many folks do not understand that people on Medicare A have to pay for their care. It is taken out of the social security check. To receive Part B you need to pay more. and if you want Part D(drugs) you pay more. Those that relieve Medicaid can not exceed 2000 dollars in their bank at any time and have no other assets. I know this because my Dad is on Medicare( and he does not have a choice) The way it is set up once you start receiving S.S. you are put on Medicare and are not allow to have any other insurance! Yes you can have a supplement policy, however they will only cover your 20% deductible of what medicare approves. When my mothers need to be Feed through her port, the government say No, She did not qualify for that, so we had to pay out of our pockets 3000.00 a week! However they would pay for a twenty year old to get the feeding..Now I know that is selected care.
My Great Aunt is receiving Medicaid, so I no how that works also. That is way I am so concern about this Health care reform bill now. the current Government health care is not very good.
Dear Deb
As long as there is one person who cannot have medical treatment when they need it then I would say that your country is at fault. It is no use bringing up other issues and citing people who abuse the system. This just masks the fact that it is wrong not to make medical treatment available to everyone when they need it. That is the only argument - all other arguments mask the problem - PEOPLE ARE DYING BECAUSE THEY ARE BEING REFUSED TREATMENT IN THE WEALTHIEST NATION ON THE EARTH!
I'm surprised at how many are saying, "I'm happy to pay". It's funny we expect things like protection (police, fire & military), education for our children and smooth roads to drive on yet something as important as life and death many think it should be a privilege that only those that can afford it should receive.
It's true that if so many people didn't abuse the system things might be cheaper. After all we all buy gas and that's cheaper, right? You're not serious are you? The system is broken, that's why it's so expensive along with greed. Come on, think about it, insurance companies are big business. They're every bit as big as the banking industry and bigger than the auto manufacturing companies. It has nothing to do with your son other than they're regulating his paycheck. You see it on your insurance statement... "This is what was charged, this is what we'll pay and this is what you owe". The math doesn't add up. The insurance companies demand deep discounts and then won't cover necessary testing, for example, until their procedures have been met. Not the doctor's procedure, the procedure that was written in an office to cut costs and improve profits. Ask your son, they have effectively tied his hands if he wants paid anything at all.
Sometimes it seems everyone has been brain washed by the very people taking our money. I am a big believer in paying our way. I'm a big believer in business and workers being paid for the services provided. I've been very fortunate to have made a nice living and blessed with good health so far. But I'm also a big believer in that little girl with a belly ache getting the care she needs before she dies from appendicitis because daddy can't afford another trip to the emergency room. They've cut his hours, he's lost his insurance and is struggling to find another job before he looses his home. That's real life in every neighborhood in every state. It's also real life for a bunch of people to stand their with their hands on their hips saying more people should pay. Understand that we are all just one disaster away from wearing the same shoes as that mother and father struggling to raise their family, put food on the table and going without medical insurance.
I don't think the solution is medical insurance. I don't trust insurance and pharmaceutical companies that spend millions lobbying the government to have the legal right to deny treatment. I don't have the answer, I don't trust the government either. Everything the government touches becomes an incredibly expensive mess that's impossible to untangle and don't run right.
I didn't mean to write a book here and I certainly don't want to offend anyone but I do disagree with the whole notion that more people need to pay more. I feel everyone should receive medical care, not just the people that can afford it. Please don't insult me by bringing up the inadequate law that forces emergency treatment for everyone. That's a joke and anyone with a conscience knows it. Yes, the very thing you say runs up the costs. You were told that, by the way, by the insurance companies. Never mind the jets and billions in bonuses and the fact they wont pay the doctors and hospitals fairly.
Ok, I'm done. Sorry for the rant but I've been researching this issue for a silly niche AdSense site and got caught up in it.
At last - Brian, brave enough to say that no-one, no matter what their circumstances, should be denied the medical help that they need. Every life is precious.
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